Are the souls under the altar alive? (Rev 6:9-11)

Overview

In the fifth seal, “souls underneath the altar” cry out to God for revenge. That is often used to support the popular belief that humans have immortal souls that survive death and that believers go to heaven in a bodiless state when they die. However:

1) These souls come alive when Jesus returns (Rev 20:4), meaning they are not alive today.

2) These souls are resting (Rev 6:11), and Daniel and Revelation use the term “rest” to describe Death as a sleep (Dan 12:13; Rev 14:13).

3) These souls are not literal people underneath a literal altar (Rev 6:9) but symbolize that God’s people are sacrificed ON the altar. [Show More]

4) This vision does not present these souls as in heaven because they are underneath the altar, which is on earth. [Show More]

5) These souls are not literal people crying out to God for revenge (Rev 6:9-10) because God’s people do not cry out for revenge (e.g., Luke 23:34). It is the injustice to God’s people that calls out to God to restore justice.

6) Since Revelation is a book of symbols, and since everything else in the fifth seal is symbolic, these “souls” should not be taken as literal people. [Show More]

7) Revelation uses the word “soul” seven times but never uses it for an immortal, conscious part of human beings. It refers twice to living animals (Rev 8:9; 16:3) and twice to living humans (Rev 12:11; 18:13).

8) The idea that humans have immortal souls comes from Greek philosophy. In the Bible, the soul refers to the entire human being (cf. Gen 2:7; 1 Cor 14:45). [Show More]

Purpose

In Revelation 5, God gave Jesus a book “sealed up with seven seals” (Rev 5:1, 7). In Revelation 6, Jesus breaks the first six seals one by one. When He breaks the fifth seal, John wrote:

“I saw underneath the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God … they cried out with a loud voice:

‘How long, O Lord, holy and true, will You refrain from judging and avenging our blood …’

And there was given to each of them a white robe; and they were told that they should rest for a little while longer ….” (Rev 6:9-11).

It is often claimed that these “souls” are disembodied but conscious souls literally crying out to God. It is then argued that a human has an immortal part that survives death. This article opposes this conclusion:

Discussion

These same souls come alive when Jesus returns, meaning they are not currently alive. 

Revelation 20:4 is part of the description of Christ’s return (Rev 19:11). It describes the same group of people as in the fifth seal because it also refers to “souls” who have been killed for their faith. However, 20:4 says that these slain souls will come alive when Christ returns, meaning that these ‘souls’ are not alive today. [Show More]

The souls are resting, a term used in Daniel and Revelation as equivalent to ‘sleep.’ 

The souls under the altar “were told that they should rest for a little while longer” (Rev 6:11). In other words, they were resting and must continue resting. Both Daniel and Revelation use the term “rest” to describe death as a state of inactivity (Dan 12:13; Rev 14:13).  [Show More]

When Christ returns:

“Many of those who sleep in the dust of the ground will awake” (Dan 12:2).

Therefore, the word “rest” strongly implies that the souls under the altar are not awake.

They are not literal people under a literal altar but symbolize God’s people as sacrificed. 

John saw the souls underneath the altar (Rev 6:9). According to Revelation 16:6, the people of the world “poured out the blood of saints and prophets.” This refers to the Old Testament sacrificial rituals in which the blood of the animal sacrifices was drained into a basin and poured out at the base of the altar of burnt offering[Show More]

The fifth seal converts this into a metaphor. It presents God’s people as “underneath the altar,” meaning that, when God’s people are persecuted and killed, they are sacrificed ON a symbolic altar and their souls (blood or lives) are poured out at the base of the altar. Therefore, symbolically, they are “underneath the altar.” Therefore, John did not see a literal altar or literal souls under the altar. [Show More]

They are not literal people because God’s people do not seek revenge

The “souls” underneath the altar cried out for revenge (Rev 6:10), but God’s people do not seek revenge. Rather, like Jesus and Stephan, they would ask the Father to forgive their murderers (Luke 23:34; Acts 7:60)!

God said that the blood of Abel cried out to Him from the ground (Gen 4:10). Similarly, it is the injustice God’s people had suffered that cries out to God, not living beings. It symbolizes God’s awareness of His people’s suffering and promise to set things right. [Show More]

In the vision, they are not in heaven but under the altar on earth

When the “souls” “were told that they should rest for a little while longer,” they were also given white robes (i.e., confirmation of salvation, or guarantee of eternal life) (Rev 6:11). In other words, they did not receive that guarantee at death, meaning that they could not have gone to ‘heaven’ immediately when they died. In the vision, they are under the altar on which they have been sacrificed, which is on earth.

Since Revelation is a book of symbols, we should assume that these are not literal people

Interpreting the souls under the altar as disembodied but conscious persons requires a literal reading of the text. However, Revelation is a book of symbols:

1) The first verse of the book says that the visions were given in the form of signs (Rev 1:1). [Show More]

2) Many things in the book cannot be literal. For example, a harlot woman rides a seven-headed dragon (Rev 17:3). [Show More]

3) Even things that seem literal are symbolic on further investigation. For example, the New Jerusalem in Revelation 21 is really a symbolic description of God’s eternal people. [Show More]

Given the pervasive symbolism of the book, the safer route is to assume that everything is symbolic unless proven otherwise. The same applies to the souls under the altar. Until proven otherwise, we must assume that the souls under the altar are symbols of realities.

More specifically, since everything in the fifth seal is symbolic, these souls are not literal

It is not a literal lamb.

The seal begins by saying the Lamb broke the fifth seal. It is not a literal lamb but a symbol of Jesus (Rev 5:6). It is also not a literal seal of a literal book. Previous articles identified the book as the Book of Life and the seals as Satan’s accusations against God’s elect. By breaking the seals, Jesus refutes Satan’s accusations and shows that God’s election is perfect. [Show More]

John did not literally see anything.

John wrote that he saw “souls” (Greek: psuchas) under the altar. What did he see? What does a soul look like? How did he know that they were killed, and why? John did not literally see anything, at least not with his physical eyes. These are thoughts that the Holy Spirit gave directly to his mind (cf. Rev 1:10). Perhaps he simply knew things in vision, rather than receiving visual images. [Show More]

The souls were not literally killed.

In this vision, these “souls” were “slain” (killed) for their faith. In 20:4, they were “beheaded.” However, 20:4 adds that they came alive “and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.” Therefore, the martyrs in the fifth seal include all of God’s people of all ages, including those who have not been literally killed. [Show More]

They are not literal bodiless souls.

Since they receive white robes, they have bodies. But “souls,” as the term is often understood, do not have bodies. The white robes are symbols of “the righteous acts of the saints” (Rev 19:7-8) and serve as God’s guarantee that they will be resurrected to eternal life. Furthermore, since these “souls” “cried out with a loud voice” (Rev 6:10), they seem to have mouths.

They did not receive literal white robes.

The souls underneath the altar are given white robes (Rev 6:11), but these are not literally white robes. The robes symbolize salvation. White symbolizes purity. [Show More]

It is not a literal number.

The “souls” were told to rest “until the number of their fellow servants … who were to be killed … would be completed also.” This is not a literal number but means that God’s end-time people would be completed QUALITATIVELY in character. (Read Article)

Conclusion

Since everything else in the fifth seal is symbolic, the souls underneath the altar cannot and should not be taken more literally than the description of Jesus as a bleeding lamb (Rev 5:6).

Revelation uses the term “soul” seven times, but never for an immortal part of humans. 

The word translated as “soul” (psuché) is used seven times in Revelation:

It refers twice to animals (Rev 8:9; 16:3). In other words, if humans have “souls,” animals also have souls. Furthermore, in both these two verses, the soul dies. It refers, therefore, to animals’ natural mortal life on this earth today. [Show More]

It also refers twice to the normal mortal life of humans (Rev 12:11; 18:13). In 18:13, the “souls of men” (Interlinear Translation) are included in a long list of things sold by merchants (Rev 18:11-13). Therefore, it cannot be an invisible, immortal part of human beings. [Show More]

It is also used to refer to a person’s innermost being rather than an immortal, conscious part of a human being: “The fruit you (psuché) long for” (Rev 18:14).

The two remaining verses are already discussed above. One is in the fifth seal (Rev 6:9), and the other is the resurrection text (Rev 20:4). These two verses refer to the same people, namely, God’s people who were killed for their faith. However, 20:4 states that these souls are made alive when Christ returns, meaning they are not alive now. In these two verses, the “soul” survives death but is not alive. It may be understood as existence in God’s mind and the promise of resurrection, not as an immortal, conscious part of human beings. [Show More]

The idea of an immortal soul comes from Greek philosophy.

The idea that humans consist of two parts – a physical body and an immaterial and immortal soul – comes from Greek philosophy. In this view, when a person dies, it is the body that dies and disintegrates into nothing, but the soul lives on in a disembodied state.

In contrast, in the Bible, the human being is a unity. The soul refers to the entire human being, consisting of God’s breath (or life principle) and the material body (cf. Gen 2:7; 1 Cor 14:45). In other words, human beings do not have souls, they are souls. (See the articles on Death and Eternal Torment.) [Show More]

God’s people are resurrected immediately after death.

At death, the memory of the person is retained by God. However, with God, time does not exist. God exists beyond time. Therefore, although time seems to pass after the death of a loved one, from the experience of a person who dies, no time passes between death and until Resurrection Day, when the dead person receives a new body. Rather, she or he is instantly resurrected after death and are immediately with both their parents and their children. [Show More]


Other Articles

The Seven Seals

Other

  • I recommend Jon Paulien’s commentary on Revelation for further reading. For general theological discussions, I recommend Graham Maxwell, who you will find on the Pineknoll website.

FOOTNOTES

  • 1
    C. Yannaras, Elements of Faith (in Greek), p.55

When Christ returns, only God’s people will receive eternal life.

This is an article in the series on Death, Eternal Life, and Eternal Torment.

Summary

In the traditional view, all people have immortal souls and
the unrepentant will suffer eternal torment in hell. In contrast, this article shows that the unrepentant will not suffer eternally but die an eternal death. In other words, people do not have immortal souls and do not have eternal life inherently. This is justified as follows:

The Apostle Paul taught as follows:

(1) Only God’s people will receive eternal life (e.g., Rom 2:5-8).

God promises eternal life ONLY to those who persevere in doing good and they will receive that life ONLY when Jesus returns (Rom 2:7). This means that people are currently not inherently immortal, that the unrepentant will never become immortal, which means that they will die.

(2) Paul never wrote that sinners will suffer in hell for eternity.

He does not mention the word “hell” even once. Rather:

(3) Paul consistently warns the unrepentant that they will die.

For example:

“If you are living according to the flesh, you must die” (Rom 8:13), and

“The wages of sin is death” (Rom 6:23).

(4) Paul contrasted this death with eternal life (e.g., Rom 6:23). 

In other words, the death that these people will die is not the temporary death that faces all people, but an eternal death; that awful and irreversible death which only the unrepentant will suffer, which Revelation refers to as “the second death.”

What did Jesus teach?

Jesus warned about “the fiery hell” – “the unquenchable fire,” “where their worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched.” This is often understood to mean that the wicked will be tormented eternally. What people forget is that Jesus quoted these words from Isaiah 66:24, which explicitly refers to dead people: “corpses of the men.” In other words, the fire and the worm that do not die are symbols of irreversible death; not of eternal life in torment. 

To explain the context a bit further: In ancient times, people sometimes destroyed corpses by fire, but when wood was in short supply, the body might not be fully consumed. And due to the hot, dry conditions, the corpse sometimes dried up and the worms died before the corpse was fully consumed. 

So, when Jesus said that the “worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched,” He meant complete extinction. As we read elsewhere, God will destroy the body and soul in hell (Matt 10:28).

The Book of Revelation teaches the same.

The best evidence for eternal torment is in this book. It says:

“If anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire” (Rev 20:15) “where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever” (Rev 20:10, 15) “and the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever” (Rev 14:9-11). 

This article shows that this is symbolic language:

    • Revelation is a book of symbols.
    • The beast is not a person that can be tormented.
    • They will be tormented in the presence of the Lamb (Rev 14:10). Literally interpreted, this means that Jesus Christ will remain forever in hell.
    • Babylon’s smoke will also go “up forever and ever,” but she is not a person.
    • The lake of fire is twice explained as “the second death.”

For a further discussion, see:

 

– END OF SUMMARY – 


THE APOSTLE PAUL

ETERNAL LIFE

Immortality and eternal life, according to Romans 2:5-8, is not something that people already have but is something which God, on “the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God” (Rom 2:5), “will render to those who by perseverance in doing good” (Rom 2:7)

The following are further indications that people do not yet have immortality and that only believers will receive eternal life:

 “We believe in Him FOR eternal life“ (1 Tim 1:16).

“We are heirs according to the HOPE of eternal life“ (Titus 3:7).

“Take hold of the eternal life
to which you were CALLED“ (1 Tim 6:12).

“God … PROMISED eternal life long ages ago” (Titus 1:2).

Since eternal life is promised only to those who persevere in doing good (Rom 2:7), such verses imply that “those who obey unrighteousness” (Rom 2:8) will NOT live eternally.  In other words:

SINNERS WILL DIE.

Paul never wrote that sinners will suffer in hell for eternity. He never uses the word “hell” but always warns sinners that they will die. For example:

“Unrighteousness, wickedness, greed …
those who practice such things
are WORTHY OF DEATH” (Rom 1:29-32).

 “If you are living according to the flesh,
YOU MUST DIE;
but if by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body,
YOU WILL LIVE“ (Rom 8:13).

“You are slaves of the one whom you obey,
either of sin RESULTING IN DEATH, or of
obedience resulting in righteousness” (Rom 6:16).

“The WAGES OF SIN IS DEATH”  (Rom 6:23).

ETERNAL DEATH  

When traditionalists read such verses, their minds automatically switch “death” to “eternal torment.” However, in Paul’s writings, the OPPOSITE of death, which sinners will die, is explicitly and always eternal life:

“As SIN REIGNED IN death,
even so GRACE WOULD REIGN … to eternal life” (Rom 5:21).

“You are slaves … either of SIN RESULTING IN death, …
But now having been freed from sin and enslaved to God …
THE OUTCOME, eternal life.” (Rom 6:16, 21-22)

“The wages of sin is death,
but the free gift of God is eternal life” (Rom 6:23).

“Our Saviour Christ Jesus abolished death
and brought life and immortality to light” (2 Tim 1:10).

(“Life and immortality” mean the same as “eternal life.”)

“The one who sows to his own flesh
will from the flesh reap corruption,
but the one who sows to the Spirit
will from the Spirit reap eternal life” (Gal 6:8).

(The Greek word translated as “corruption” in this verse is phthora. Strong’s concordance defines this word as “destruction, corruption.” )

CONCLUSION

Paul, therefore, taught that:

    1. People do not yet have immortality.
    2. Only believers will receive eternal life, namely when Christ returns.
    3. Sinners will die.

Since Paul also taught that the opposite of the “death” that sinners will die is “eternal life,” this is not the temporary death that faces all people. It is, rather, eternal death; that awful and irreversible death which only the unrepentant will suffer, to which Revelation refers as “the second death” (Rev 20:14).

JESUS CHRIST

It should, therefore, be abundantly clear that Paul taught that the unrepentant will die an eternal death. But traditionalists claim that Jesus taught the eternal torment of sinners.

Christ often mentioned “hell” (Matt 5:22, 29, 30; 10:28; 18:9; 23:15, 33; Mark 9:43-48; Luke 12:5). He warned of “the fiery hell” (Matt 5:22; 18:9); “the unquenchable fire” (Mark 9:43), “where their worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched” (Mark 9:44, 46, 48).

It is often assumed that Jesus, with these words, taught that the wicked will be tormented in hell for all eternity, but this is not what He said:

Firstly, He said that the worm and the fire are immortal. He did not say that people are immortal.

Secondly, these are symbols. In ancient times, when people attempt to destroy corpses by fire, wood may be in short supply and the fire goes out before the body is consumed.  And due to the dry conditions, corpses sometimes dry up and the worms die before the corpse was fully consumed. Therefore the expression, the “worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched,” simply means that nothing will remain; “both soul and body” will be consumed (Matt 10:28).

Thirdly, Jesus, like Paul, also contrasted eternal life with death:

“He who … believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life,
and does not come into judgment,
but has passed out of death into life” (John 5:24).

In John 5:28-29, Jesus said that all people who ever lived will be resurrected. Some will be resurrected to “life,” which is the eternal life of verse 24. But the others will be resurrected to “judgment,” which is the “death” of verse 24. Since life here is eternal, death here is also eternal.

Fourthly, Jesus said that God “is able to destroy BOTH BODY AND SOUL in hell” (Matt 10:28). In other words, God is able to annihilate human beings. This means that souls are not immortal. Some counter that God is “able” to annihilate body and soul but that does not mean that He will not do it. But why would Jesus say this unless God would also do this?

Fifthly, and perhaps most important, Jesus quoted “their worm will not die And their fire will not be quenched” from Isaiah 66:24, which explicitly refers to “the corpses of the men.” In other words, it is a symbol of death; not of eternal life in torment. 

REVELATION

Arguably, the strongest evidence for eternal torment comes from the book of Revelation. It says that any person who “worships the beast and his image:”

“… will be TORMENTED with fire and brimstone
in the presence of the holy angels
and in the presence of the Lamb.
And the smoke of their torment goes up FOREVER AND EVER;
they have no rest day and night” (Rev 14:9-11). 

This “fire and brimstone” refers to the “lake of fire and brimstone” (Rev 19:20) where “the devil … the beast and the false prophet … will (also) be tormented day and night FOREVER AND EVER” (Rev 20:10) and into which these people are thrown (Rev 20:15). How do we reconcile this with Paul’s consistent view that sinners will die, and with Christ’s statement that God will destroy body and soul in hell?

We respond that Revelation is a book of symbols and that the following shows that the eternal torment in Revelation is symbolic:

(1) SMOKE RISES FOREVER.

What is eternal in Revelation 14:9-11 is the smoke of their torment; not their torment. Babylon’s smoke will also go “up forever and ever” (Rev 17:18; 19:3), but she is not a literal person that can be tormented. Babylon is a symbol of the anti-God religious system that has ruled over the kings of the world of all ages. 

Furthermore, the “ten horns … will burn her up with fire” (Rev 17:16), which means that Babylon will be fully and completely destroyed.  

The ever-rising smoke is, therefore, a symbol. It means that God and the saved will never forget the awful destruction of people who they loved. People will remember it for as long as they live, and they will live “forever and ever.”

(2) BEAST TORMENTED FOREVER

As a further example of the figurative nature of this eternal torment, the beast will also be “tormented day and night forever and ever” in “the lake of fire and brimstone” (Rev 20:10), but the beast is not a literal person. One of the articles on this website identifies the beast as the mainstream church of Christianity. The beast, therefore, cannot literally be tormented forever in an eternal hell. This must be understood as symbolic language.

(3) THE SECOND DEATH

The lake of fire is twice called “the second death” (Rev 20:14; 21:8). This means that this death is different from the first death. All people are resurrected from death (Rev 20:5; John 5:28-29). Therefore, all people live twice. But the worshipers of the beast also die twice (Rev 19:21; 20:9). After the judgment of the dead (Rev 20:11, 12), their death becomes final and irreversible when Hades is thrown into the lake of fire (Rev 20:14-15).

This is confirmed by the fact that, in Revelation, once a being is cast into the lake of fire, he is never again seen doing anything. For example, the beast and the false prophet “were thrown alive into the lake of fire” when Christ returns (Rev 19:11). Thereafter they never again do anything in Revelation. One thousand years later, the devil and the people with the mark of the beast are cast into the lake of fire (Rev 20:10-11; 20:15) and are never again seen. 

(4) THE PRESENCE OF THE LAMB

Revelation 14:10 says that the worshipers of the beast “will be tormented … in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb.”  Literally interpreted, this means that the Lamb and His angels will remain in hell forever, which is ridiculous. God gave Christ “authority to execute judgment” (John 5:27), and this is what He will do. 

The pain of hell is not that God tormenting people as retribution for their sins. God does not work that way. Everything that God does, He does from love (1 John 4:7; 1:5). But He promised a universe with perfect peace and joy. Therefore, eventually, God must annihilate evil and the consequences of evil. In the process, He has to do certain things that will cause pain. To understand a bit about these larger issues, I recommend Why Satan thought he could win and The Seven Seals of Revelation.

CONCLUSION

The idea of immortal punishment results from the concept of the immortal soul. That man has an immortal soul came from the Greek philosophical view in the world in which Christianity arose. Although it is foreign to Judaism and Christianity, it soon became accepted in the church and is today defended in the Church as orthodox. However, it is actually the first lie recorded in the Bible, when the serpent said to Eve, “You surely will not die” (Gen 3:4).  

The concept of an immortal soul is rebellion against God. The promise of the Bible is a resurrection from death, which depends on God’s miraculous power, but the concept of the immortal soul says that we do not need God.

For further discussion, see the other articles in this series.


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