In the Trinity doctrine, God is three Persons in one Being, but Jesus is not God.

Purpose

In the Trinity theory, God is one Being but three co-equal and co-eternal Persons; the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. In this view, Jesus, together with the Father and the Spirit, is the Ultimate Reality; the uncaused Cause.

The Bible does have a very high view of Jesus. Through Him, for example, God created all things and, through Him, God maintains all things (e.g., Heb 1:2-3). Jesus, therefore, always existed. However, this article shows that the Bible maintains a consistent distinction between God Almighty and Jesus Christ (e.g., Rev 21:22) and presents Him as subordinate to God (1 Cor 11:3).

It is difficult to understand who the Son of God is. Since we are trying to understand the infinite, we must accept that it may even be impossible to understand. We must realize how small we are, compared to the universe. We are like one-cellular organisms existing in a drop of water that floats around in the oceans of the world. We do not know where we are. Compared to the Infinite, our existence is fleeting. How could we hope to understand the One who exists without cause?

During the first three centuries, while Christianity still was persecuted by the Roman authorities, Christians believed that Jesus Christ is the Logos or Word of God who always existed in the Father but who became a separate Being when God wanted to create (see The Apologists). They all thought of the Son as subordinate to the Father (see Origen). 

But in the fourth century, after Christianity became legalized, a great controversy erupted in the church about who the Son of God is. Later in that century, Christianity also became the sole official religion of the Roman Empire. But it came at a price. A series of articles on the historical development of the Trinity doctrine shows that it was the Roman Emperors, particularly Constantine, Theodosius, and Justinian, who decided that the church must adopt the Trinity doctrine. They appointed the bishops and manipulated the church councils. In other words, the church inherited the Trinity doctrine from the Roman Empire:

The dragon gave him (the beast) his power and his throne and great authority” (Rev 13:2).

Although the Trinity doctrine is inconsistent with the Bible, it became the most important doctrine of the church. People who do not accept it are regarded as outsiders and even killed. But now, in the end-time, the truth of the Bible is being revealed, and I suspect that the first great controversy in the church will also become the last great controversy.

Summary

“One God” phrases

The Bible is very clear that ONLY ONE GOD exists. Several New Testament verses contain related phrases, for example:

    • God is one” (Mark 12:28-30; James 2:19; Gal 3:20);
    • The one and only God” (John 5:44);
    • One God” (1 Cor 8:6; 1 Tim 2:5; Eph 4:4-6);
    • Only God” (Jude 1:25; John 5:44; 1 Tim 1:17); or
    • Only true God” (John 17:3).

The important point is that, in all these verses, the Father alone is God. In contrast, such verses often identify Jesus Christ as “Lord.” For example:

There is but one God, the Father
and one Lord, Jesus Christ
” (1 Cor 8:6).

A Consistent Distinction

The Bible consistently maintains a distinction between God and Jesus. For example, all letters of the New Testament begin by making a distinction between God and Jesus. For instance:

Peace from GOD our Father,
and the LORD Jesus Christ

(Rom 1:7-8).

See also 1 Cor 1:3-4; Eph 1:2-3; Gal 1:3; Eph 1:2; Phil 1:2; Col 1:2; Philem 1:3; 1 Thess 1:1; James 1:1; 2 Peter 1:2 and 2 John 1:3; cf. Eph 6:23).

Another example of the distinction which the Bible maintains between Jesus and God is that Jesus is the Image of the invisible God:

God is invisible, unknowable, and incomprehensible. God, the Father, “dwells in unapproachable light, whom NO MAN HAS SEEN or can see” (1 Tim 6:16-17; cf. 1 John 4:12; John 1:18; 6:46).

Jesus “is the IMAGE of the invisible God” (Col 1:15; cf. 2 Cor 4:4; Heb 1:3; John 1:18).

If God is invisible, while Jesus is His visible image, then Jesus is distinct from God. Therefore, if we want to base our definition of God is on the Bible, then we must use that title only for the Father.

The Father is Jesus’ God.

Jesus referred to the Father as His God (John 20:17; Matt 27:46). Even 60 years after His resurrection, when He gave to John the Book of Revelation, He referred to the Father as His God (Rev 3:2, 12; cf. 1:6). Paul, similarly, described the Father as “the God of our Lord Jesus Christ” (Eph 1:17; cf. Heb 1:8-9). And since God is also His God, Jesus prayed to God while on earth (John 17:1; Luke 6:16).

Jesus is at God’s right hand.

The New Testament often states that Jesus, at His ascension, “was received up into heaven and sat down at the right hand of GOD” (Mark 16:19; cf. Acts 7:56; Matt 26:62; Acts 2:33; 7:55; Rom 8:34 and Eph 1:20). This is the position of power over the entire universe; subject only to God.

The One who exists without cause.

A number of New Testament verses identify God, the Father, as the Ultimate uncaused Cause of all things, in distinction to Jesus. For example:

There is but one God, the Father,
FROM WHOM ARE ALL THINGS …
and one Lord, Jesus Christ,
BY whom are all things
” (1 Cor 8:6; cf. 2 Cor 5:18-19; 1 Tim 6:13; Heb 1:1; John 1:3). 

Many other examples

Many, many other passages may be listed to show that Jesus is both DISTINCT from God and SUBORDINATE to God. For example:

Before He had to suffer and die on the Cross, Jesus pleaded with His Father: “If it is possible, let this cup pass from Me” (Matt 26:39; cf. Matt 2:12, 22; Mark 10:18).

The book of Revelation distinguishes between “God and … the Lamb” (Rev 14:4; cf. 11:15; 21:22-23; 22:1, 3).

The Father “alone possesses immortality” (1 Tim 6:16).

Possible Objections

Various articles are available on this website that address possible objections to the view proposed above. For example:

Of the about 1300 times that the word Greek theos appears in the New Testament, it refers to Jesus about 7 times. But theos may be translated as “god” or as “God.” To translate the instances of theos, that refer to Jesus, as “God” is an application of the Trinity doctrine; not proof there-of. (For a further discussion, see, for example, the article on Hebrews 1:8 or on the word theos.) 

Jesus’ statement, “I and the Father are one” (John 10:30) means to be united in purpose and in work (see John 17:21-23).

Jesus said, “He who has seen me has seen the Father” (John 14:8-9) because He “is the image of the invisible God” (Col 1:15.

Both John 1:1 and 1:18 refer to Jesus as God but both verses also make a distinction between God and Jesus. The Greek grammar requires John 1:1c to be translated as, “the Word was like God” and the original text of verse 18 is disputed.

Who is Jesus?

Jesus always existed and God created “all things” through Him (Heb 1:2), but this describes the Son only in terms of our little universe, for time and “all things” refer to our universe. Beyond our universe exists a completely incomprehensible but the true reality that is the source of our universe.

Fourth Century Controversy

CONSTANTINE THE GREAT

The controversy about the nature of Christ arose early in the fourth century. An article series on this website shows that the Trinity doctrine became accepted in the church during the fourth to sixth centuries after the church became the official religion of the Roman Empire, with the Emperor as the actual head of the church. That article series shows that the decisions to adopt the Trinity doctrine were not taken by independent Church Councils, but by the Roman Emperors; particularly:

    • Constantine, through his insistence on the word homoousios in the Nicene Creed in AD 325;
    • Theodosius, through the edict of Thessalonica in AD 380 in which he made the Trinity doctrine the only legal religion of the Roman Empire, and eradicated all other Christian belief systems from the Roman Empire through fierce persecution; and
    • Justinian who, after Arian tribes took control of Europe during the fifth century, in the sixth century significantly weakened these tribes and established the Byzantine Papacy, which, over the next two centuries, made an end to all resistance to the doctrine of the Trinity also outside the Roman Empire.

After this followed the Middle Ages, during which people were not allowed to read the Bible, and the church, through her control over civil authorities, put people to death that opposed her teachings: “In her was found the blood of prophets and of saints and of all who have been slain on the earth” (Rev 18:24)

This means that the church received the Trinity theory from the Roman Empire. As stated in Revelation 13:2, and as discussed in other articles on this website, the dragon (the Roman Empire), gave the beast from the sea (the Church of the Middle Ages) “his power and his throne and great authority.

Subordinate to the Father

This article is the first of four that shows that Christ is distinct from and subordinate to God, the Father. The other articles provide evidence that:

Identifying Mark

This website also opposes other traditional doctrines of the church, such as the doctrine of eternal torment, but the most vicious attacks on this website are aimed against its views about the Trinity. Many regard the Trinity doctrine as the identifying mark of true Christians. As soon as one rejects the Trinity doctrine, you are no longer regarded to be a Christian.

– END OF SUMMARY –


The Father is the Only God.

Only One God

In opposition to the prevailing polytheism of the surrounding nations, one of the primary messages of the Old Testament is that there is only one God. For example:

ShemaThe Shema announces:
Hear, O Israel!
The LORD is our God,
THE LORD IS ONE!

(Deut 6:4). 

The LORD” (Yahweh) declared:
I am the first and I am the last,
and there is NO GOD BESIDES ME

(Isaiah 44:6; cf. 45:21-22; 43:10-11).

The New Testament confirms this principle. For example, when asked what the most important commandment is, Jesus quoted the Shema:

Hear, o Israel!
THE LORD OUR GOD IS ONE LORD

(Mark 12:28-30).

James similarly wrote:
You believe that GOD IS ONE;
you do well
” (James 2:19).

The Father is the “one God.

A number of verses in the New Testament (NT) contain the phrase “one God” and in all such instances, the Father alone is God:

There is but ONE GOD, THE FATHER …
and ONE LORD, JESUS CHRIST
” (1 Cor 8:6).

For there is ONE GOD
and
ONE MEDIATOR between God and mankind,
the man Christ Jesus
” (1 Tim 2:5).

There is … ONE LORD,
one faith, one baptism,
ONE GOD AND FATHER of all
who is over all and through all and in all
” (Eph 4:4-6). 

These verses, in contrast to the “one God,” identifies Jesus as “Lord.”

There are many texts in the Bible that mention the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, but the quoted verses specifically define God, and must, therefore, be regarded as very important when we ask who God is.

The Father is the “only God.

The following are the New Testament verses that contain the phrase “only God” or “only true God.” These verses confirm that the Father is the only God, while Jesus is identified as Lord:

To the ONLY GOD our Savior, through Jesus Christ our LORD, be glory, majesty, dominion and authority” (Jude 1:25).

Jesus said, “you do not seek the glory that is from THE ONE AND ONLY GOD” (John 5:44).

In prayer, Jesus said to the Father, “This is eternal life, that they may know You, THE ONLY TRUE GOD, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent” (John 17:3).

To the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the ONLY GOD, be honor and glory forever and ever” (1 Tim 1:17).

And in all these verses, the Father alone is God.

Note also the word “through” in Jude 1:25, quoted above. This word often describes the relationship between the Father and the Son.  Everything we receive from God, we receive through His Son. And all glory we give to God, we give Him through His Son.

Is it then not sufficiently clear, from the above, that the New Testament presents the Father alone as God?  If Jesus prayed to the “only true God” (John 17:3), how can Jesus also be God?

A Consistent Distinction

James White is perhaps the best-known Trinity apologist today. He emphasizes that the New Testament makes a distinction between the Father and the Son. However, that point is rather obvious. Our argument is rather that the New Testament consistently makes a distinction between God and the Lord Jesus, which means that Jesus is not God, as the New Testament uses the term “God.” 

The introduction to every New Testament letter makes a distinction between God and Jesus. For example:

“Peace from GOD our Father,
and the LORD Jesus Christ”
(Rom 1:7-8).

“Grace be unto you … from GOD our Father,
and from the LORD Jesus Christ”
(1 Cor 1:3-4).

“Blessed be the GOD and Father
of our LORD Jesus Christ
” (Eph 1:3).

See also Galatians 1:3, Ephesians 1:2, Philippians 1:2, Colossians 1:2, Philemon 1:3, 1 Thessalonica 1:1, James 1:1; 2 Peter 1:2 and 2 John 1:3; cf. Eph 6:23).

Therefore, if we want to derive our definition of the term “God” from the New Testament, then we must use that title for the Father alone.

(Do not place any reliance on the capital letters in the verses quoted. Remember, the New Testament was written only in capital letters.)

Jesus is the Image of the invisible God.

God is invisible.

God “dwells in unapproachable light,
whom no man has seen or can see

(1 Tim 6:16).

No one has seen God at any time
(1 John 4:12; cf. John 1:18).

Not that anyone has seen the Father,
except the One who is from God;
He has seen the Father
” (John 6:46; cf. Col 1:15; John 4:24).

The last verse quoted (John 6:46) identifies the Father as God and as distinct from Jesus. The Invisible God is the Source all things. He exists outside our physical realm of time, space and matter:

By faith we understand …
that what is seen
was not made out of things which are visible
” (Heb 11:3).

Jesus is His image.

Jesus “is the IMAGE of the invisible God” (Col 1:15).

“Christ, who is the IMAGE of God” (2 Cor 4:4)

He is the radiance of His glory and
the exact representation of His
(God’s) nature

(Heb 1:1, 3).

God is invisible, unknowable, and incomprehensible. Human beings are unable to comprehend a Being that is not limited in space or time and Who exists without cause.

But in His Son, appearing in a form that we are able to understand, God becomes knowable, visible, and audible to the material creatures of the universe. For that reason, He is the Word of God (John 1:1, 14). If God is invisible, while Jesus is His visible image, then Jesus is distinct from God and, therefore, not God.

The Father is Jesus’ God.

Jesus referred to the Father as “My God.For example:

I ascend to MY FATHER and to your Father,
to MY GOD and to your God
” (John 20:17). 

Hanging on the Cross, Jesus cried out:
MY GOD, MY GOD,
why have
You forsaken me?“ (Matt 27:46).

Jesus identified the Father as His God even 60 years after His resurrection when He gave the Book of Revelation. 

He has made us to be a kingdom,
priests to His God and Father
” (Rev 1:6).

I have not found your deeds completed
in the sight of MY GOD
(Rev 3:2)

“I will write on him the name of MY GOD” (Rev 3:12).

Paul similarly described the Father as Jesus’ God:

The Father of glory” is
the God of our Lord Jesus Christ” (Eph 1:17).

Since God is also His God, Jesus prayed to God when He was on earth (John 17:1; Luke 6:16):

In the days of His flesh,
He offered up both prayers …
to the One able to save Him from death
” (Heb 5:7).

The entire John 17 is a record of Jesus’ prayer to “the only true God” (John 17:1, 3). “He spent the whole night in prayer to God” (Luke 6:16).

Jesus is at God’s right hand.

The New Testament often mentions that Jesus is at God’s right hand. For example:

At His ascension, Jesus “was received up into heaven and sat down at the RIGHT HAND of GOD” (Mark 16:19).

Stephen, just before he was stoned, said, “I see the heavens opened up and the Son of Man standing at the RIGHT HAND of GOD” (Acts 7:56).

Other examples include Matthew 26:62; Acts 2:33; 7:55; Romans 8:34 and Ephesians 1:20.  

His position at God’s right hand is the position of power over the entire universe but subject to God. That confirms that Jesus is both DISTINCT from God and SUBORDINATE to God.

Trinitarian apologists claim that the Bible only makes a distinction between the Father and the Son but these examples make a distinction between God and Jesus.

The one who exists without cause

The Bible identifies only the Father as the uncaused Cause of all things. For example:

There is but one God, the Father,
from whom are all things

and one Lord, Jesus Christ,
BY whom are all things
” (1 Cor 8:6). 

All things are from God,
who reconciled us to Himself through Christ

(2 Cor 5:18-19).

In the presence of God,
who gives life to all things,
and of Christ Jesus
” (1 Tim 6:13).

God … in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, …
through whom also He made the world

(Heb 1:1; cf. John 1:3; Rev 4:11).

The first verse quoted (1 Cor 8:6) identifies God as the Father. All of these verses contrast God with Jesus and identify God as the uncaused Cause of all things. The only begotten Son, therefore, is not the Almighty uncaused Cause of all things.

Note also the words “through” and “by” in these verses, indicating that God works “through” His Son. In this universe, God always works through His only begotten Son.

Many other examples

Many, many other passages may be quoted where God and Jesus are mentioned as distinct from one another. For example:

Before He had to suffer and die on the Cross, Jesus pleaded with His Father, “if it is possible, let this cup pass from Me;
yet NOT AS I WILL, BUT AS YOU WILL.

(Matt 26:39 – Note that the Father and Jesus have distinct wills.)

The book of Revelation contains phrases such as “to God and to the Lamb” and “of God and of the lamb” (Rev 14:4; cf. 11:15; 21:22-23; 22:1, 3), which confirm that Jesus is distinct from God.

The Father “alone possesses immortality” (1 Tim 6:16). The immortality of all other beings is dependent on His immortality.

When Jesus was a baby, “God” warned his father Joseph “in a dream not to return to Herod” (Matt 2:12, 22).

Jesus asked the young ruler, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good except GOD alone” (Mark 10:18).

Possible Objections

Various articles have been written to address possible objections to the view proposed above. Perhaps some may be mentioned:

Jesus is called God.

Of the about 1300 times that the word Greek theos appears in the New Testament, it refers about 7 times to Jesus. So why is Jesus called “God” in those instances? The reason is that the word theos may be translated as “god” or as “God,” depending on to whom it refers. It is up to the translators to decide when they will translate theos as “God” and when as “god.” To translate the instances of theos that refer to Jesus as “God” is an application of the Trinity doctrine; not proof there-of. (For a further discussion, see, for example, the article on Hebrews 1:8 or on the word theos.) 

I and the Father are one.

In John 10:30, Jesus said, “I and the Father are one.” Some people read into this verse that Jesus just is the Father. To be “one,” however, does not mean to be literally one Person. Jesus, in His prayer for His followers, defined the term to “be one”:

“That they may be one as we are one“ (John 17:21-23).

To “be one,” therefore, means to be united in purpose and in work. It describes a relationship between distinct beings. As Jesus said, He did the works of the Father (John 10:32) and He only did what pleased the Father (John 8:28-29).

He who has seen me

When Philip said to Jesus, “Lord, show us the Father,” Jesus responded:

He who has seen me has seen the Father” (John 14:8-9)

Some use this to say argue Jesus is the Father, but given the verses quoted above, we should rather conclude that Jesus said here that He is THE EXACT IMAGE of the Father. For a further discussion, see Seen the Father. 

John 1

Both John 1:1 and 1:18 refers to Jesus as God. However, the same two verses also make a distinction between God and Jesus by saying:

The Word was with God” (John 1:1) and
No one has seen God at any time” (John 1:18). 

Why is He called God if He is not God?  The article series on John 1:1 concludes that the Greek grammar requires John 1:1c to be translated as:

The Word was like God.” 

John 1:1 then has the same meaning as Philippians 2:5, which says that Jesus, before His birth, “existed in the form of God” and had equality with God.

The article on John 1:18 shows that the original text is disputed. Many ancient manuscripts refer to Jesus as huios (son) and not as theos (god). But even if John originally did describe Jesus as theos, we must still remember that, in the Greek language, the word theos is used for any supernatural and immortal being. It is up to the translator to decide whether to translate theos as “God” or as “god.”

Jesus is God if …

Since the New Testament consistently makes a distinction between the Father as God (theos) and Jesus as Lord (kurios), and since we should derive our terminology from the Bible, we should conclude that the Father alone is God. 

However, since the word theos may be translated as “god” or as “God,” before we can ask whether Jesus is God, we must first define the word “God.”

God created all things through His Son (Heb 1:2) and Christ upholds all things by the word of His power (Heb 1:3). It is possible to define the title “God” so as to include Jesus, but then we will have two Gods.

But if we define God as the Almighty; the Uncaused Cause of all things, then the Father alone is God. The Father is the only true God (John 17:3) and the only truly immortal Being (1 Tim 1:17; Rev 4:10); the invisible and unknowable Ultimate Cause of all things (Rev 4:11). He is our God and also Jesus’ God. The Lord Jesus is always subject to and subordinate to the only true God. To use Bible terminology, “God is the head of Christ” (1 Cor 11:3).

Who is Jesus?

Given how the Bible describes Jesus, for example, that God created all things through Him (Heb 1:2) and that Jesus upholds all things by the word of His power (Heb 1:3), we find it difficult to distinguish between God and Jesus. But consider the following:

This universe is finite.

It contains a fixed quantum of mass/energy and has existed for a fixed period (13 billion years). Since everything that begins to exist must have a cause, the universe was caused by something.

Beyond the universe

Since things exist, and not nothing, something must exist without a cause and, therefore, without a beginning. Since time and energy/mass came into being when the universe came into being, time does not exist in the completely incomprehensible but true reality which exists beyond our universe, and which is the source of our universe.

The Son of God

Therefore, even if we say that there never was a time that Jesus did not exist, that statement describes the Son only relative to our little universe. And even though God brought “all things” into being through His Son, “all things” must be limited to this universe, for “all things” do not include God or the Son Himself. In other words, there still exists an incomprehensible reality outside the time, space and mass in terms of which the unique Son of God is described. 

God

That incomprehensible reality, I would propose, is God. However, it is not humanly possible to understand God. Why is there not nothing? How can we understand a being that exists without cause? “The secret things belong to the LORD our God, but the things revealed belong to us” (Deut 29:29).

We need to accept what the Bible revealed, such as that the Bible identifies the Father alone as the Almighty, and not speculate about things that have not been revealed.

Inherited from the Roman Empire

A series of articles on this website discusses the history of the development of the Trinity theory.

First Three Centuries

The series starts with articles that show that Polycarp, Justin Martyr, and other church fathers of the first three centuries were not Trinitarians. They had a very high view of Christ, and even described Jesus as theos but always as subordinate to the Father, who they identified as the only true and almighty theos.

Fourth Century

The controversy over the nature of Christ arose early in the fourth century when a presbyter named Arius taught that, with respect to the Son, “there was when He was not.” But since he also believed that the Son existed before time began, the phrase “there was when He was not” does not refer to time but simply means that the Father was the Ultimate Source of all things. In other words, the Son received His existence from the Father and, therefore, was subordinate to Him.

To bring an end to the controversy, Emperor Constantine called the Council of Nicaea of the year 225 and exerted his influence on the formulation of the Nicene Creed. That creed declared the Son to be “true God from true God.” To justify this view, the Nicene Creed ventured that the Father and Son are of the “same substance” (homoousios). 

However, over the fifty years following Nicaea, more or less from 330 to 380, the church rejected the Nicene Creed and returned to Arianism. Constantine’s successors, Emperors Constantius and Valens were Arians and actively encouraged the church to reverse the Nicene Creed. They exiled bishops teaching the Nicene Creed and crushed the Nicene party.

But then Theodosius – an ardent supporter of the Nicene Creed – became emperor in 380. In the same year, he outlawed Arianism and exiled all Arian bishops. He did this before the famous 381 Council. Arian church leaders were not allowed to attend that council. Consequently, that council accepted and refined the Nicene Creed.

Fifth Century

After Theodosius died, the Western Roman Empire weakened. Germanic tribes, who previously migrated into the Empire, reached such large numbers and high positions in the Roman army that they, in reality, controlled the Western Roman Empire. Over the course of the fifth century, they divided the territory of the Western Empire into Germanic kingdoms. Since these Germanic peoples were Arians, the Western Empire was Arian once again!

In the Eastern Roman Empire (the Byzantine Empire), with Constantinople as its capital, Nicene Christianity remained dominant.

Sixth Century – Byzantine Papacy

To free the Roman Church in the west from Arian domination, Emperor Justinian, emperor of the Eastern Roman (Byzantine) Empire in the sixth century, sent troops to combat the Arian nations and significantly weakened them. His troops dispersed the Vandals to the fringes of the empire, forced the Ostrogoths back north to South Austria, and barricaded the Visigoths with the new province of Spania.

Some Arian nations remained, but after liberating the Roman Church from Arian domination, the Byzantine Empire continued to protect, strengthen and reign over the Roman Church in the west. Through two centuries of Byzantine rule over the Papacy (known as the Byzantine Papacy), the Byzantine Empire, through the Roman Church, converted the remaining Arian kingdoms, one after the other, to Nicene Christology.

Conclusion

Given the facts reflected in this brief overview, it is not possible to deny the decisive influence which the emperors had on the church’s acceptance of the Trinity doctrine. As mentioned above, Constantine and Theodosius respectively manipulated the key creeds of 325 and 381, and Justinian, through the Byzantine Papacy, wiped Arianism out. 

This means that the church received the Trinity theory from the Roman Empire. As stated in Revelation 13:2, the dragon (the Roman Empire), gave the beast from the sea (the Church of the Middle Ages) “his power and his throne and great authority.

Other Available Articles

34 Replies to “In the Trinity doctrine, God is three Persons in one Being, but Jesus is not God.”

  1. Dear Andries

    Thank you for the incredible and accurate research you have put into all your work. I agree with all you have said as it comes directly from scripture.

    I have realized some time ago that one of the biggest reasons for the “great misleading” comes through the pen of the translator. One would be naïve to think that the powers and principalities of this dark world have not a hand in this. How else would it be possible to establish the antichrist? False doctrine and teaching through corrupted translations.

    I love Jesus with my whole heart and I am thankful that He came to teach us about his Father’s love for us all. Everything that the Bible teaches about Jesus is true. Jesus even tells us who He is and why his Father sent him to us.

    I believe that GOD, the Son of GOD and the Spirit of GOD work and function as a unit. But there is only one GOD, the Father and his name is YHWH.

    There is a movement that started recently and I can sense an urgency in it… RETURN TO THE FATHER. Your research on the Sabbath is also accurate and we will see the importance of the Sabbath when the final prophesies are fulfilled. The mark of the beast VS. The mark of GOD.

    I pray that our GOD and Father will continue to lead you through his Spirit into truth. I pray this in the wonderful name of our Lord, Jesus Christ.

    1. Thanks, De Vries
      In the view of some, the Sabbath is the “mark” or “seal” of God. But even if that is true, one should not assume that the Mark of the Beast is the alternative, namely Sunday worship. Rather, we should ask what the beast is, and then, to identify its mark, I would propose that we ask what the distinctive feature of the beast is. One of my articles argue that the beast is the mainstream church of Christianity. So, what would its distinctive feature be?

    1. If it was true what some people (churches) say about them, such as that God will torture sinners for all eternity, or that God is angry at sinners and that Jesus had to die to placate Him, I would agree with you. But the purpose of this website is to prove that God is not like people say He is. He gave His only unique Son to save the human race. If Jesus failed, not only would the human race have been lost, but the Son would have suffered some loss which we cannot understand. Satan said that, given the right circumstances, even the Son would give in to the lure of sin. Jesus became man so that He could be tested. Despite all the temptations that Satan threw at Him, He never set Him own needs above that of others. Therefore, we can be assured, God and Jesus have always been and will always be completely unselfish.

  2. It is sad to see this post and so many people commenting wrongly about God. I suggest reading online “Understanding the Trinity: How can God be three Persons in One?” by Matt Perman and/or “Trinity” by got questions. The trinity is foundation to our faith and salvation. Learn it, search it, pray, read, understand. God bless. Jesus is God.

    1. Thanks for the comment. I scanned Matt Perman’s short article. It is a conversion of the Athanasian Creed into more normal language. But the question is not How can God be three Persons in One, the question is what does the Bible say? Does the Bible say that Jesus is God? John summarized his gospel with these words, “these have been written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God” (John 20:31). He did not say, “these have been written so that you may believe that Jesus is God.”

  3. I was a born again christian, but after reading Dr. Richard Carrier’s arguments, I became convinced there was no real flesh and blood Jesus.

    1. Hi Tomas
      The Thomas of the Bible also said, “Unless I see in His hands the imprint of the nails, and put my finger into the place of the nails, and put my hand into His side, I will not believe” (John 20:25).

      One thing that worries me about your view is the statement “For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the antichrist.” (2 John 1:7)

  4. Through all the discussion above. At the end of the day people will choose their belief based on their understanding using a human brain.

    When we pray to the lord / our God … do we use our brain only, or our heart? Doesn’t our heart cry out to God not our limited intellect ?

    So the discussion of right and wrong ways to see Lord Jesus , and then telling our fellow brothers and sisters that they are in danger of preaching one way or another about who Jesus is and if wrong will be judged ….mmmmm…. I don’t know seems a little off the mark of why we are Christians.

    On the one hand yes we want to share who Jesus is to people to show them the path of Jesus….. so it stands to serve we do want to know who Jesus is himself…..

    But Jesus own saying if Love the lord your God with all your being…. Should we not maybe focus on teaching what Jesus said… and then helping people find faith in what Jesus said and faith in God , trinity or not … our faith runs deeper than wondering about trinity or not…..

    Again I return to the heart, we call out to God and wether we say Lord Jesus through you I pray to God… or do as Jesus said in the Lord’s Prayer: “our father who arrived in heaven…

    Both ways are one and the same , no need to be divided …. I doubt God would worry about you praying through Lord Jesus to God or ? Only to God…. Our father in heaven.

    So ultimately what I want to say is … it’s a endless debate that will confuse many people and get them looking at a path rather than at the destination … getting stuck in mud on a path to glory is counter productive.

    Teach people to do what Jesus said , Jesus said Father in heaven…pray and teach others to pray… so that the Holy Spirit will guide our hearts and not our human intellect which is limited.

    Just my view point I wanted to share . Knowledge has limits , but spirit moving us as did the apostles receiving the Holy Spirit know God without words……

    Perhaps the key is such … anything that starts a debate is actually human and thinking…. Which is not bad at all but is not as powerful as spirit moving us that goes beyond thinking into our core …

    1. Hi Richard
      Yes. I have thought much about what the difference is. And the difference, in my mind is very important. Let me say it like this: Satan saw in the nature of Christ an ideal opportunity to create division in the church. The division got teeth in the fourth century when Christianity became the official religion of the Roman Empire and the first Christians were killed for preaching contrary to the Trinity doctrine. See Boyd. Over the centuries, many more Christians were killed for not accepting the Trinity doctrine, even by Protestants. See Michael Servetus. Now, I think we are approaching the end-time, and people will again be killed for their faith. We need to know what the truth is.

  5. As we go on to debate such matters, the unity of most starts to fall apart. That is the very reason why there are so many denominations. In the beginning there was only one religion, one language and God dwelling with His people. It is no wonder that Hosea 4:6 declares that my people are destroyed because of a lack of knowledge. It also goes further to say that because they have rejected the truth.

    Everyone seems to say that they hold the truth, but somewhere among all those with different views the truth stands. But because of religion some are blinded and cannot see the truth. I want us to slow down and think carefully and pray fully on what Jesus says in Matthew 7:21 when Jesus says, “Not everyone who says to Me Lord, Lord, shall enter the Kingdom of heaven”. And in Luke 13:24“Strive to enter through the narrow gate, for many, I say to you, will seek to enter and will not be able.

    When translations are done from the Hebrew words, one must carefully bring it into context, otherwise one can choose a word that suits and then get it wrong. Paul states “For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ”. Then we look at scripture 1 Tim 3 16 that God was made manifest. Now manifest translation indicates the following…to make manifest or visible or known what has been hidden or unknown, to manifest, whether by words, or deeds, or in any other way.

    As we note to make visible, and God is invisible and was made visible to man as seen in 1Tim 3:16. Jesus also says to the Jews in John 8:58, “Truly, truly I say to you, that before Abraham was born, I Am. Now the only one declaring to be I Am was God when He said to Moses in Exodus 3:14, “I Am who I Am”.
    Jesus says in John 8:58 before Abraham was born, I Am. What a statement from Jesus to make when he says I Am. We then only can conclude from all this and other scriptures that Jesus is was God in the flesh.

    I pray that we seek God in all matters and allow the Holy Spirit to reveal the truth before the word of God is distorted.

    1. Dear Derrick,

      I appreciate your caution. I do believe that clear thinking is critical with respect to the Trinity doctrine, which is regarded by many as the cornerstone of Christianity and which forms the basis of many other doctrines of the church, such as the doctrine of the atonement.

      I use the NASB. In the NASB, 1 Timothy 3 16 does not say anything about “God was made manifest.” The NASB reads, “great is the mystery of godliness: He who was revealed in the flesh.” Perhaps this is a less clear verse.

      I do believe that, in John 8:58, Christ claimed to be the “I am” of Exodus 3:14. God created all things through Him (John 1:3, Col 1:16, 1 Cor 8:6, and Heb 1:2). Before He became a human being, “He existed in the form of God” and had “equality with God” (Phil 2:6), but those quotes still mean that He is distinct from God. God is invisible (Col 1:15) because He exists outside time, space and matter. I believe that the One who appeared visibly as God in the Old Testament is the Son.

      There are many texts that ascribe divine qualities to the Son. But the Bible is also clear that He is distinct from and subordinate to Him. My caution is this: Do not select a key verse, such as John 8:58, and ignore the vast number of verses that do not fit the Trinity doctrine.

      I do understand that this is difficult. Infinity is beyond human understanding. But allow me to say how I try to make sense of the fact that the Bible describes the Son both as divine and as distinct and subordinate to God: Scientists know much more today than they knew when the Bible was written. Today we learn that this universe came into being 13 billion years ago through the Big Bang. But the source of intelligence and power, that caused the universe to come into existence, exists outside space, time, and matter. In my mind, I associate Christ with this universe and God with than invisible but true reality beyond this universe. But that is not Bible exegesis; this is just I make sense of the Bible facts.

  6. Brethren, let us not confuse ourselves with the Trinity of God. The Bible is very clear on God`s plan of redemption. Note God is Spirit who can possess any form, any character. His appearances to humans depend on His purpose. At times He appeared as a fire…..Story of the burning bush, As spirit…Day of Pentecost, or as a friend and Human {Jesus Christ). So when Jesus prayed to the Father, this does not mean he was not God. But it was a demonstration to humanity that only one in Heaven is worthy to receive worship.

    1 Timothy 3 v 11 – 16…God appeared to his earth as a human. Seen by angels.
    Therefore, his purpose was to save his people from sin. After His resurrection, Thomas began to know him completely that he is the true God.
    ……For all the time along, he took him as Lord and not God….but when he touched Jesus’ hands, he fell down and cried…My Lord and My God. If Jesus was not true God he could have rebuked this word…My God

    Again remember the devil said, worship me and if you do all this kingdom of the world will be given to you…Jesus said…Get away from me Satan: Worship the Lord your God and immediately Satan knew that he was speaking to God himself in Flesh.

    Therefore Jesus is God and God is Jesus. Meaning the body of Jesus represents God’s love for humankind and the Spirit of God in Jesus represents his love for heavenly beings. Jesus took all forms of God. This God who speaks as a word during creation, appeared as blazing fire is now fully live as a human but his Spirit is everywhere present

    Thank you

    1. Dear Pardon

      I appreciate your views, but if we want to represent God on this earth, we must seek the truth even if that goes against what the mighty men of this world preach. We must seek the truth from the Bible alone and we must be extremely accurate about what we read in the Bible.

      With respect to 1 Tim. 3:16, there is nothing in that verse to indicate that it speaks about God. It is all about Jesus. A few verses earlier, we read, “there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus” (1 Tim. 2:5). In my view, you are guilty of misrepresenting the truth by knowingly or unknowingly quoting selectively.

      With respect to what Thomas said, remember that the Greek Bible has no word equivalent to the modern word “God.” The only word they had was equivalent to our word “god.” That word is used in the Bible for the true God and for many other beings; even for Satan. When the translator thinks that the true God is intended, it is translated as “God.” Otherwise, it is translated as “god.” In the very same chapter in which Thomas said, “my lord and my god” (John 20:28), Jesus also said that He is going to our God and His God (John 20:17). My brother in Christ, why do you omit to quote that verse?

      Let us be extremely careful to make a deep study of these things. We only have a short while on this earth. Then we will be held accountable for the things we said.

  7. John 10:38 (NIV)
    John 14:11 (NIV)
    John 14:10 (NIV)
    This all proves that jesus is the father himself….

    1. In John 14:11, Jesus said, “I am in the Father and the Father is in Me.” In John 10:38, He also said, “the Father is in Me, and I in the Father.” But Jesus prayed for His disciples “that they may all be one; even as You, Father, are in Me and I in You” (John. 17:21). And, “that they may be one, just as We are one; I in them and You in Me, that they may be perfected in unity” (17:22-23).

      How can Jesus be the Father Himself? Did He pray to Himself? Did He ask Himself, “My Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass from Me; yet not as I will, but as You will” (Matt. 26:29)?

    1. Hi William
      I like short comments! Hebrews 1:8 refers to Jesus as theos (god), but the next verse refers to the Father as His god (theos). This is similar to John 20, where Thomans refers to Jesus as god (theos), but Jesus refers to the Father as His god (theos).

      The word God, which is the modern name for the One who exists by Himself, does not exist in the Hebrew or Greek Bibles. They only had the word theos in Greek, which is the word for the Greek gods. To refer to the Father and the Son as theos only means that they are supernatural beings, such as the Greek god Zeus. When to translate theos as God or as god is pure interpretation. For further discussion, see Ignatius of Antioch or THEOS

  8. In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
    John 1:1 NKJV
    We can verify that THE WORD MEANS JESUS in John 1:14
    And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.

  9. Therefore take heed to yourselves and to all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood.
    Acts 20:28 NKJV
    For unto us a Child is born, Unto us a Son is given; And the government will be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
    Isaiah 9:6 NKJV
    Titus 2:12b-14 NKJV

    1. Hi Werner

      I assume you are saying that Jesus is God.

      You must remember that the word “God” does not appear in the New Testament; at least not in the original Greek. All that we find in the Greek is the word theos, and that word is equivalent to our word “god.” When the translator thinks that “the Majesty on high” (Heb. 1:3) is intended, he translates theos with “God.” Otherwise, he translates theos with “god,” for instance, “the god of this world” (2 Cor. 4:4).

      Since translators are Trinitarians, by and large, they believe that Jesus is God. Therefore, they translate the instances, where Jesus is identified as theos, as “God.” Then, when the man in the pew reads the Bible, he concludes that Jesus is “God.” It is like composite circular reasoning: One part of the church translates theos as “God” because they think Jesus is God; another part of the church thinks Jesus is God because the translation reads “God.”

      What would you have thought if Isaiah 9:6 read “mighty god,” and Titus 2:13 read “our great god and savior, Christ Jesus?” Don’t judge by appearances.

  10. I do understand what has been said. As we speak about Trinity we mean three in one. How does Jesus perform all the miracles whereas He is not God?

    1. Jesus did these miracles through the power of the Holy Spirit. His disciples can do the same work. He said, “I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do, he will do also; and greater works than these he will do; because I go to the Father” (John 14:12).

    2. God gives Jesus the power to do anything that will help accomplish God’s plan to have a peaceful and better earth. rev 21:4.

  11. Andries,

    I know who God is, God knows who He is, It seems many of your readers know who He is. You are the one trying to tell God who He is and is Not. This seems like something you should take up with Him and not assert to try to teach others.

    If you read with a good, older concordance, you will see very clearly who He is. This only comes by faith and being taught of Him.

    But to further muddy your understanding, I will also warn you that if you had read the Bible, with original language and the Spirit, you would have read that Jesus also admits that He is the Holy Spirit. Many times.

    Repent, dear deceived soul. Repent while there is still time. Lean not on your own understanding and being wise in your own eyes.

    The true danger in this understanding, is if you are wrong about the foundation, then this whole blog is built on a faulty foundation. I assume you will be too busy defending your own wisdom and beloved understanding and ideas. No need to reply. It’s irrelevant to me. But that each one will come to KNOW God and be known by Him, in truth. That will determine if the door is open to that soul.

    Who is the door opener? who is the Lord that will declare depart from me? But only God can judge and condemn. You have many discrepancies that you have not reconciled. I pray you will be able to even admit that you need to.

    Maranatha!

    1. Dear Tara,
      I read the Bible different from you. There are many statements which indirectly imply who God is, but, much more important, there are a few places that directly define God:

      Yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom are all things and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him” (1 Cor. 8:6).

      There is … one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all who is over all and through all and in all.” (E[ph. 4:4).

      There is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus” (1 Tim. 1:5).

      I assume that you believe what you believe because that is what people taught you. I would recommend that you study the Bible to arrive at your Christology. For example, search for the phrase “true God,” or take an entire book, like Revelation, and read it with the goal of understanding only this one thing; what does it say about Jesus?

      Andries

  12. you are anti christ!.in revelation tells that whoever considered JeSUS Christ is Not God they are the anti Christ.

    1. No, John wrote that he that denies that Jesus came in the flesh is the Antichrist (2 John 1:7). “Who is the liar but the one who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, the one who denies the Father and the Son” (1 John 2:22)

  13. Andries if you deny that Jesus is God, you are a false prophet. Only a sinless God could die for my sins and save me. Jesus was and is God and man simultaneously. John the Baptist says in John 1:29 “The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.” Only a sinless God can take away man’s sin. Therefore Andries, repent ‬‬from this false teaching.

    1. Neels

      Firstly, you say “only a sinless God could die for my sins and save me.” I know that this is standard rhetoric, but where do you find it in the Bible? This seems to accept the general teaching that Jesus died to pacify an angry God. That is, in my view, not consistent with the Bible. It is the dominant view of God in Christianity, but still a heathen view of God. In the Bible, God saves us through Jesus, but it is God that saves. Perhaps my article WHY JESUS HAD TO DIE, will help.

      Secondly, the New Testament uses the title God almost always exclusively for the One Whom Jesus called Father. Therefore, do not be too quick to call me a false prophet. It is interesting, in Church History, how easily people excommunicated other Christians with a different understanding of the Bible. We need a more nuanced view of Jesus. He is the First and the Last, but distinct from God. He has all power in heaven and on earth, but received it from God. He created all things, but it was God who created all things through Him. I do not think it is wrong to refer to Jesus as God, for He is extremely similar and close to God, but Jesus is clearly not the Invisible Source of all things.

        1. Hi Lou
          In the NASB 1 John 5:7-8 reads “For there are three that testify: the Spirit and the water and the blood.” You are probably using the KJV. Textual critics agree that the KJV contains a corrupted reading in this verse.

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